It is based on the original "Angel Breech" design.
Background:
Just a quick background on the origins of this breech design, the original "Angel Breech" design was created by forsaken_angel24, and he posted his guide on how to make his original version on the NerfHaven forum.
Link to the original "Angel Breech" Mod Guide by forsaken_angel24.
Full credit goes to forsaken_angel24 for his original breech design!
Introduction:
The stock Longshot plastic breech does not have an air-tight bolt to barrel seal, hence the plastic bolt itself is essentially the barrel. Once the foam dart is fired out the bolt, the foam dart already starts losing power and velocity. In addition, most of the air pressure from the plunger is wasted once the foam dart leaves the bolt.
The design objective of an air-tight brass breech system is to create a 100% air-tight seal all the way from the plunger through to the barrel, thereby providing efficient air pressure delivery to propel the foam darts further.
This would result in more power within each shot, with greater firing distance and faster dart velocity.
The "Angel Breech" was originally designed to chamber shorter foam darts (commonly called "Stefans", DIY foam darts made from foam backer rod).
I have tinkered with the part dimensions and worked out a new set of measurements to allow the "Brass Breech" system to chamber standard-sized foam darts too.
In addition, i've added a "bolt half-pipe" design into the breech system to create a larger adhesive contact area for the bolt sled attachment piece, creating a much stronger attachment point (very essential for Longshots using stronger springs).
The following guide will cover my customized version of the "Brass Breech" mod.
Important Note:
The "Brass Breech" mod is a more advanced mod project that should only be performed by those who are already familiar with modding the Longshot.
For new modders, please refer to the Nerf Longshot Mod Guide to get familiar with the modding basics first.
Disclaimer: Modify at your own risk. Modifications may wear out or damage your blaster. Please be careful when using hobby tools!
Lets start...
Step 1: You will need to obtain 4 different sizes of brass tubes (Brand: K&S Engineering).
The brass tube sizes are: 1/2", 17/32", 9/16" and 19/32". All of them are 0.014" wall thickness. They are usually supplied at hobby shops in either 1 ft or 3 ft length tubes.
Oxidization tends to occur in store bought supplies, so give the brass tubes a good polish with some Brasso Metal Polish, polish both externally and inside the tubes, this helps smoothen out the surfaces for lower friction.
Shiny things are always nice and it'll give your blaster some "bling" too! :)
Step 2: We will work on the barrel and bolt receiver first.
In this example, i'm using 1 ft of 9/16" brass tube for the barrel.
Take a Rotary Tool with a cutting wheel, and cut a 8 cm length bolt receiver half-pipe in the 9/16" brass tube.
Use a sander bit to round out the edges and corners.
Please be careful when handling such hobby tools, wear protective eyewear, dust masks and gloves.
Step 3: To help the chambered darts achieve an even tighter air seal, make tightening rings in the barrel.
Use a Rotary Pipe Cutter and create the tightening rings. Just tighten the pipe cutter slightly around the brass tube, then rotate. Do it a few times to create the tightening rings.
Okay, thats all for the brass barrel and bolt receiver, you can put it aside for now.
Step 4: We will now go on to the bolt section of the breech.
Separately cut out a set of brass tube sections in the following lengths:
1/2" brass tube: 11 cm
17/32" brass tube: 2 cm
9/16" brass tube : 2 cm
19/32" brass tube : 17 cm (5.5 cm for bolt half-pipe)
These are my custom tube measurements for a breech system that can chamber standard-sized darts. In addition, it also features a more secure "half-pipe" bolt attachment point design.
The measurements need to be as accurate as possible. Any variations may affect the overall structure and air seal of the breech system.
Step 5: Cut the original stock plastic bolt until around 1 cm of the plastic bolt is left.
Nest all the 4 brass sections for the bolt completely into the plastic bolt end-piece.
Here is my Nested Brass Tubes Cut-Away Diagram:
Use the strongest glue you can get to glue everything together. I use "Selleys Super Strength" 2-part slow-curing epoxy glue (and it actually requires a curing time of 3 days!). Make sure the glue cures completely for maximum bond strength.
Completed nested brass bolt assembly.
Nested brass bolt internal assembly.
Test fit the bolt section with your barrel and bolt receiver, place a dart into the breech system to test the dart fit too.
Step 6: Once the brass bolt sections are permanently attached, fill up the deadspace in the plastic bolt end-piece hollow space with hotglue (or any other suitable filler material).
Step 7: We will now need to do a test alignment of the various components.
Secure the brass barrel inside the original orange plastic barrel by wrapping it with electrical or duct tape to temporarily widen it's outer diameter, so that the brass barrel can be wedged tightly inside the plastic barrel, yet still movable to allow adjustments for test fittings.
Check all the part positions and make sure that a clip with a standard-sized dart can fit nicely into the breech opening.
Note that the 19/32" brass bolt half-pipe will slide over the 9/16" brass barrel half-pipe, which in turn slides into the brass bolt assembly.
Step 8: To attach the brass bolt to the bolt sled, we will need to cut out the attachment piece from the original plastic bolt.
Position the brass bolt, attachment piece and bolt sled in the casing and note the maximum forward and backward movement of the bolt to find the correct point to attach the plastic attachment tip to the brass bolt.
Note that a segment of plastic behind the attachment point has to be trimmed thinner so that it can slide into the plunger casing properly. Just whittle it down until it fits.
Use some sandpaper to roughen the surfaces on the plastic attachment tip and brass bolt, then use the strongest glue you can get to glue the 2 parts together. Again, i use slow-curing 2-part strong epoxy glue here too. As always, make sure the glue cures completely for maximum bond strength.
This is the section that has to take the most load, especially when stronger springs are used.
Step 9: Assemble everything together into the casing, note that the pop-up blocker plate mechanisms are all removed, we don't need those anymore.
Step 10: Test your "Brass Breech" Longshot!
Breech open.
Breech closed.
Ready to go!
Nice and shiny! :)
Sample Test Fire Results:
PTG: Parallel-To-Ground (Shoulder height, no elevation)
ATG: Angled-To-Ground (Aimed higher, 30 degrees elevation)
Distance is measured at where the dart lands (Average of 6 darts).
Brass Breech Longshot (14kg Load Spring)
Ammo: Customized FBR foam + 1.1 gram soft silicone tip weight
PTG = 110-120 ft
ATG = 140-160 ft
Note that the test was done indoors with customized foam darts and the results are sample estimates for reference (your results may differ depending on materials and mod techniques used).
Average Shot Velocity Measurement From Shooting Chrony F-1:
FPS data are from an average of 12 recorded shots.
All test shots are fired with the blaster barrel muzzle approx. 6 inches from the 1st sensor.
Tests are done indoors with natural light sources.
Important User Tips:
- Clips must be loaded only when the breech closed. This is so that the clip feed-lips can "catch" around the brass bolt for a proper fit.
- For smooth dart chambering process, make sure that foam darts used are no more than 7 cm in length.
- The better the foam dart fit in the brass barrel, the better the range results.
Enjoy!
Wow, now I really want a longshot.
ReplyDeleteThis is like a better version of the singled longshot mod, right?
ReplyDeleteIt seems like there would be some deadspace between the 1/2" tube in the bolt and the 9/16" in the reciever.
ReplyDeleteChriz,
ReplyDeleteDefinitely... it features an air-tight seal between the barrel and plunger, yet still retains its clip-fed system and maintains its original rate-of-fire (RoF). :)
BS,
ReplyDeleteThats a keen observation! Yup, there is a tiny bit of deadspace within the "sleeve" section, though the amount is so negligible that there isn't any noticeable adverse effect on the performance of the brass breech system.
can you make a youtube video on how to do this?
ReplyDeletejoel,
ReplyDeleteWell, i've already done a detailed step-by-step written mod guide, which is much clearer and easier to follow. :)
So i'll not be doing another seperate youtube video on it.
I completely agree with you that the detailed step-by-step guide is amazing and very descriptive.
ReplyDeleteFor the newer modder, that isn't completely familiar, a video would just show the order in which you glue things together and such and how it will look as you are doing it.
either way, thanks for your time of putting this together
does stedfans fit in it?i prefer using stefans to using streamlines
ReplyDeleteweaponhazard,
ReplyDeleteYup, this mod removes the original bolt along with its dart post, so it can use any type of foam darts, including stefans made with solid FBR sections.
Wow, you just solved one of the biggest problems with Brass *cough*ANGLE*cough* Breech design, its that little bolt nub that usually breaks easily, you just used an entire section, very simple clean.I just have one question? Did you reinforce the plastic boltsled?
ReplyDeleteMindWArrior,
ReplyDeleteYup, the original "Angel" Breech design with its tiny bolt attachment point had issues with durability, especially when used with stronger springs.
My "bolt half-pipe" design basically increased the adhesive surface area much more, so the attachment between the brass bolt and bolt sled is much stronger.
Currently, i've found that i don't need to do any extra reinforcements to my bolt sleds because i now use custom-built polycarbonate shotgun grips on all my modded Longshots (i might post up a Mod guide on how to do that soon), so the bolt sled load is properly distributed between the 2 sides. As a result, i've not encountered anymore bolt sled breakages even after heavy usage in many games.
Please put a shot gun grip guide! then I'd love you!
ReplyDeleteChriz,
ReplyDeleteYup, my Longshot "Shotgun Grip" Mod Guide is now online:
http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-longshot-mod-shotgun-grip.html
:)
Does it work with streamline darts?
ReplyDeletecan you post a video on how to do this with the longstrike and if you do tell how to clean the inside of the brass piping
ReplyDeleteHoward,
ReplyDeleteYes, as i mentioned in the mod guide, my customised brass component measurements allow the usage of standard-sized foam darts (up to 7 cm length).
Therefore, streamline darts can be used.
Galen,
ReplyDeleteTo do a brass breech mod on the Longstrike, you can use the same modding methods, but you'll have to adjust all the brass tube measurements shorter to fit the Longstrike's reverse-plunger system.
Just to share my experience, i have tested brass breeching a Recon and a Longstrike, but have found that the resulting performance increase for those blasters are rather insignificant.
Their small reverse-plunger systems basically don't have sufficient air volume to provide the power to maximise the effect of an air-tight breech system.
Air-tight breech systems produce much more significant performance increases in blasters with more air-volume and power, like the Longshot. :)
Thanks for the help :)
ReplyDeletehello sg can you please tell me the point of the 2 cm brass pieces and do you put them at the very bottom of the black thingy. thanks don't really understand...
ReplyDeletebandXade,
ReplyDeleteThe 2 cm pieces of 17/32" and 9/16" brass tubes are for spacing apart the 19/32" brass bolt section and the internal 1/2" brass "dart pusher" section.
The 9/16" brass barrel half-pipe slides into the brass bolt assembly to form an air-tight seal.
Its kinda like making a hollow sleeve. :)
okay, so how long should the plastic bolt thing(black piece)be? and do you stick the 2cm brass at the very bottom or higher? thanks for the help!!!
ReplyDeletebandXade,
ReplyDeleteAs mentioned in the mod guide, the black plastic bolt end-piece should ideally be trimmed until 1 cm of the plastic is left (please refer to the photos in the guide).
The positioning of all the pieces in the brass bolt assembly should follow the layout in the "Nested Brass Tube Cut-Away Diagram".
Also as mentioned, the tube measurements need to be as accurate as possible. Any variations may affect the overall structure and air seal of the breech system.
If your brass tubes are somehow cut slightly longer or shorter than what is stated in the guide, adjust the positioning of the bolt assembly parts until they all line up properly.
Most importantly, make sure the assembled brass bolt has the exact same length as the original plastic bolt.
is it possible for you to post a guide on how to paint a nerf gun eg. longshot ect and is the shotgun grip compatible with the brass breech mod?
ReplyDeletematt,
ReplyDeleteWell, maybe i'll post a painting guide in the future. Stay tuned for it. :)
Yes, the polycarbonate shotgun grip design (that i showed on my mod guide) can be used with Longshots that are brass breeched too.
Hi, hopefully i'm not missing something obvious here, but could you replicate the front barrel/halfpipe piece (9/16") with the rest of the 17/32" pipe, and place it inside the 9/16" barrel? (making that part twice as thick)
ReplyDeletethis would mean the dart would fit snugly inside a 17/32" barrel (Which has an internal diameter of 1/2", the exact diameter of the dart), rather than be in the slightly too large 9/16". If the dart fits exactly, all of the air will be behind it. This would increase accuracy massively, as air that gets ahead of the dar, pushes on the sides of the dart, knocking it off course.
i have answered my own question, the tightening rings solve the airtightness problem, and the slightly wider barrel = less friction :)
ReplyDeleteDavid,
ReplyDeleteYup, the tightening rings help to create a better seal to hold the foam darts in place, yet allowing the foam darts to accelerate through the barrel with less friction.
Its all a matter of testing the foam dart fit as different foam darts (types and brands) can vary on outer diameter (OD).
Some modders use 17/32" brass barrels for their blasters too, because they use customised foam darts that have a narrower OD... but note that using 17/32" brass barrels would tend to restrict the usage of other foam darts that have slightly wider OD.
What you'd want is a brass barrel and foam dart combination that can chamber most foam darts properly, yet not too tightly or else the darts may get stuck.
can this be combined with your shotgun grip mod?
ReplyDeleteIan,
ReplyDeleteYes, the polycarbonate shotgun grip design (that i showed on my mod guide) can be used with Longshots that are brass breeched too.
When you say:
ReplyDelete- Clips should be loaded only when the breech closed. This is so that the clip feed-lips can "catch" around the brass bolt for a secure fit.
How do you put the clip in while the breach is closed.
Using the terms from:
http://www.captainslug.com/nerf/ls_inside_3.jpg
It appears that you left the clip lock in in the final image, but in the Angel Breach guide that you linked to, Forsaken Angel says to remove the "Bolt [Dart] tooth, Bolt lock, clip lock, trigger lock".
In your guide, you only mention removing the dart tooth. Should the clip-lock be removed, or do you simply force the clip past the clip tooth (which seems possible on the recon I have that is not currently taken apart)?
Also, what would be the implications (negative and positive) of removing the bold lock and trigger lock?
Marc,
ReplyDeleteTo load a clip into a brass breeched Longshot, make sure the breech is closed fully (brass bolt in forward position), then simply push or "slam" the clip up against the bolt to load.
The reason why clips are recommended to be loaded this way, is because the brass barrel's half pipe would tend to interfere with the proper loading of a clip, if the breech were to be open.
As for the dart tooth assembly, it should be removed because it is no longer in use with the brass breech system.
Removal of the bolt lock, clip lock and trigger lock are optional mods that users can also do seperately, but are not essential for usage of the brass breech system.
Here are some pros and cons of the 3 component removal mods:
Removing the bolt lock is a useful mod because it allows users to still be able to re-open the bolt anytime even after it has been primed and a dart has been chambered. This is useful if a dart jam needs to be cleared or accessed. I usually remove the bolt locks on all my modded Longshots.
Removing the clip lock simply allows the clip to be removed even when the bolt is in the closed forward position. Some users do it to allow them to forcefully pull out the clip anytime. It does not affect the loading or holding of the clip.
Removing the trigger lock enables the Longshot to be fired even when the bolt is open and not fully closed. Note that this could pose a danger if a dart clearing procedure is being done while the brass bolt is still open and the trigger is accidently pulled, the brass bolt will fly forward at very high speed and might slice the user's fingers.
I need help with knowing where to cut the brass and how much brass I should get. I lost you right after step one. I follow a lot better with videos so that I see what I have to do. I have chosen to use this blog because I want to be able to use streamlines. Thanks in advance.
ReplyDeleteDo you repeat step 2 and 3 twice?
ReplyDeleteAndrea,
ReplyDeleteIn Step 2, just take a 1 ft length of 9/16" brass tube and cut one end of it into an 8 cm long half pipe.
In Step 3, use a rotary pipe cutter to make circular ring impressions on the 9/16" brass tube to create "tightening rings", this helps to narrow the barrel slightly so that the foam darts have a better air seal and don't sit too loosely or fall out when the barrel is lowered.
In the range test, were any other modifications done to the longshot? Spring upgrade, etc. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteMatt,
ReplyDeleteMy tested brass breech longshots have the following modifications done beforehand:
- Air Restrictor (AR) Removal
- Air Release Seal
- Plunger Padding
- Aftermarket Spring Replacement
- Deadspace Elimination
- Charging Handle Easy Release
The customised aftermarket spring i used has a 14kg spring load.
Reference guide:
http://modworks.blogspot.com/2009/09/nerf-longshot-mod-guide.html
:)
Do you recommend doing all the mods on the Nerf longshot that are in your first mod guide before doing this?
ReplyDeleteDoes it leave a welt when shot at close range, say 20 feet or less?
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteI highly recommend modders to do the various mods on my first Longshot Mod Guide before attempting the Longshot Brass Breech Mod.
Longshot Mod Guide
http://modworks.blogspot.com/2009/09/nerf-longshot-mod-guide.html
To maximise performance, the mods on the first guide need to be done on the Longshot beforehand anyways, and it also helps modders become fully familiar with the internals and mechanisms of the Longshot.
Longshot modding experience is essential when doing the Brass Breech Mod, as it requires a complete understanding of how the parts work and how the components are aligned.
As for red marks or welts from foam darts fired at close range, it depends very much on the design of the foam darts that are used.
Foam darts with solid or hard tips would naturally cause red marks or welts, even when fired from less powerful blasters. For general safety, those kind of foam dart designs should not be used.
I customise all my calibrated foam darts with soft padded tips (same material as the soft padding i use to pad the blaster plungers).
The soft padded tips help to absorb most of the foam dart impact, so even at close range, there are no red marks or welts caused.
I do recommend the same practice of customising your foam darts with soft padded tips for greater safety during Nerf games. :)
Good idea about cusioning the diy darts so they do not leave welts.
ReplyDeleteCan you make more tightening rings if you want? Forsaken angel did like 8 on the angel breech.
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteYup, you can make as many tightening rings as you need to customise the ideal fit for your foam darts.
Hey dude nice guide my longshot is arriving tomorow and i was wondering if u can still use stefans with a streamline accepting breech because i want to use both since u dont have stefans just cut down a streamline and test it thanks if u could =)
ReplyDeleteVersatileChicken,
ReplyDeleteStefans that are made with Foam Backer Rod (FBR) that are not hollow (ie. solid core) can only be used in breeches that have their AR dart posts removed.
I use both Stefans and Customised Foam Darts and both work in modified breeches.
Stefans can be of various lengths and designs, but if you are using the shorter Stefans (ie. 3-4cm length), you'll also have to customise your ammo clips further to enable shorter Stefans to be chambered properly.
lol sgnerf noe about modding the magazines and all that =)and u did'nt answer my main question:Can this breech be stefan and streamline compatable?
ReplyDeleteVersatileChicken,
ReplyDeleteYup, both Stefans and Streamline darts can be used in my brass breech design.
Modified breeches that can fit standard sized Streamline darts can naturally also fit shorter Stefans.
As mentioned in my Mod Guide, i adjusted the dimensions of the breech opening larger to fit both types of foam darts.
thank you =)
ReplyDeleteWhere do you get your industrial springs? where is it located? and does the supplier u get urs from sell springs of similar strength as a plus bow spring or the k14 spring from mcmaster?as well as dimentions =)
ReplyDeleteVersatileChicken,
ReplyDeleteI get my aftermarket springs from various local industrial spring manufacturers and suppliers.
I currently have sets of different aftermarket springs for various mods and testing, from super light 100 gram springs all the way to super heavy 50 kg springs.
Nowadays, most of the aftermarket springs i use are custom-made by spring manufacturers to my own specifications.
If you need aftermarket springs that are tried and tested to fit in the various modded blasters, just pop by the NerfSG forum (lots of other experienced modders there with their own aftermarket springs too) or PM me at my youtube channel and i'll see if i can hook you up with the aftermarket springs that you need.
Hi, I have a couple questions for you. So far I have completed the mod and I have a couple issues as well.
ReplyDelete1) The black breech head cracked and so did the orange cap on the plunger tube to the head. do you think this is from expanding glue? I originally used Gorilla Glue. I have since used a more watery krazy glue to repair.
2) The barrel and breech have a lot of friction right when they meet to create the air tight seal. I have created two separate barrels, the 2nd barrel I tested before cutting out the half-pipe and it slide smoothly into the breech before that. Now the 1st and 2nd both have high friction (the 1st I have even sanded down a little, polished like heck, and a few other things but to no avail). WD40 makes little difference, I'm just wondering why do you think, any suggestions. It could be combination of the tightening rings and cutting the metal.
3) The high friction from #2 causes the barrel to move forward about 1mm or so, just enough to lose the air tight seal (some of it is the breech doesn't move fully forward until after firing) I have increased the duct tape, etc but usually before 6 shots it will lose the air tight seal again.
4) Do think I should totally secure the barrel and/or bring it forward a little more and use a mod or keep the darts pushed back all the way?
Thanks!
Tom,
ReplyDelete1) I guess the cracks on your Longshot's black plastic end pieces and plunger parts probably resulted from not enough padding on the plunger head. Repeated hard impacts from the plunger tends to eventually crack those parts. Add more padding and see if it solves the issue.
Not sure if its the glue that might also be the cause of the weakened parts, but for me i use 2-Part Selleys Super Strength Epoxy Glue for most of my mods. Its pretty much the strongest glue i've ever used, requires 72 hours curing time for maximum strength (yeah, not kidding). :)
2) The fit between the brass bolt and barrel is highly dependent on the shape of both parts after they are cut and handled. The fit should be smooth yet air-tight.
Sometimes after cutting and handling the brass tubes, they might become slightly oval in shape which naturally causes an over-tight fit.
Try this solution... take the brass barrel half-pipe and press it between your fingers to curve the half-pipe shape abit more. This usually solves the over-tight fit between the barrel and bolt.
3&4) The easiest solution is to permanently glue the brass barrel in position so that it wouldn't move, but then it wouldn't be modular or swappable anymore.
If you still prefer to keep it modular, you'll just have to keep testing different layers of tape to get the most secure fit possible so that the barrel can stay in position.
It can take a while, but its possible to achieve a secure fit.
Hope that helps. :)
Thanks for answering, your site is awesome too! I was waiting on the angel breech for about 4 months, wondering if I should do it but I knew the small tab was a big issue and I don't have any Stefans at the moment, so I tried your remake.
ReplyDeleteI was considering the oval shape too but after pressing various sides, it didn't help. I actually have it in a rubber padded vise now, hoping maybe it would do the trick. I was very disappointed when the 2nd barrel was finished and still causing such high friction!
What type of filler would you use on the barrel to get it tight? I think mine will still be modular or are you talking about 1/2 inch PVC on the end of the barrel nozzle after grinding out the plastic?
I'll try to let you know how it goes.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the cool feedback! :)
Okay, for your brass bolt to barrel fit issue, perhaps you can also check if both parts are level with each other when installed in the Longshot.
Sometimes the brass bolt assembly might be positioned at a slight angle, and this can affect the fit between the brass bolt and barrel.
Brass bolts positioned at an angle could also be due to the orange bolt attachment piece not trimmed thin enough, or that during the brass bolt assembly gluing process it somehow got stuck at an angle.
Anyways, i guess you'll have to tweak it further to refine the bolt movement until its smooth.
To secure the brass barrel, i currently just use layers of electrical tape, it can take a while to get the perfect fit (every blaster is slightly different), but i've managed to customise the ideal amount of tape layers to keep the barrels secure in my brass breeched Longshots.
Using spacers made out of plastic or pvc is also a good idea. Do try it out and see if it works for your Longshot too. :)
I think the I figured out a little more accurately the friction problem.
ReplyDelete1) The barrels do seem to be slightly warped, I know this because the barrel was perfect before I cut it but after, it had higher friction.
2) The tightening ring may be too close to the half-pipe. I think the combination of a tight barrel ring and the slightly maligned rim cause the 1/2" pusher bolt to increase friction, maybe I missed the distance but I'm going to say that 1cm away from the half-pipe might be a safer bet. I think I made mine too close.
3) Don't sand/polish down the barrel too much for tweaking, I think I may have lost the air tight seal from my first barrel, I smoothed out the first tightening ring on the inside a little and now it's a bit smoother to push in but I'm getting very inconsistent shots, I'm looking into the seal or possible another piece of the breech.
Sorry if I'm posting too much, just hoping to solve this problem for anyone else as well.
ReplyDeleteI did a few tests, 8 darts (6 Stock streamline, two hot glue filled heads on otherwise stock streamline):
1) 160+ feet ( I know crazy for flat firing but it arched up after flying about 40 feet straight, kind of like a nice golf drive) Went past my fence and into the neighbors bushes, fence is 160' from where I fired.
2) 123' probably would have been just over 100' but arched up near the end.
3)64'(Glue Filled)
4)62'(Stock)
5)45'
6)22',(Glue Filled) tail spin out of barrel
7)15' Tail spin
8)12' Tail spin
I didn't find any seal problems with the plunger tube or breech head, I think it may be partially due to removing one tightening ring, giving me only 1 tight ring, I'll add two more, if that doesn't work I'm guessing I just sanded/polished down the metal too much for an air tight seal trying to fix the friction.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteNo probs, its great that you are sharing your experiences with your brass breeched Longshot mod, other modders reading can definitely learn from your experience.
It seems you are having the issue of dart inaccuracy at the moment.
Well, from my experience, stock (and modded) streamline darts tend to be very inaccurate when fired from modded blasters... more so in higher powered blasters like a brass breeched Longshot.
One solution is to customise or make your own foam darts which are calibrated with better weight balance to match the power of the brass breech Longshot.
Try using various different foam dart bodies and maybe also foam backer rod (FBR) matched with different types of tip weights. Test them to find the ideal customised dart for your modded blaster.
As a benchmark, i currently use customised foam darts with custom rubber tip weights calibrated to allow my brass breeched Longshots to consistantly hit a coke can at 30ft, a dinner plate at 50ft and a man-sized target at 80ft.
No swerving or fishtailing of the darts, just a flat and direct dart flight path to the target. Wherever i aim, chances are it'll hit.
Its all in the calibration of the foam darts. :)
Yea, I haven't seen anything that seems like it will work well, do you have detailed version of your darts? The glue filled tips on the streamlines I have tried 3 of, and 2 are good accuracy I think.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I'm really having the problem with the barrel still, the friction and use cause it separate, I can't get it to stick in the barrel with duct tape or electrical. The first few shots are better, the tightening rings worked well to stop the fish tailing. But when I look, the Barrel has moved slightly, do you have a specific way that's keeping it from moving?
I tried, but the only way I get it tight interferes with the Barrel head that meets the breech, not allowing the gun to sit in the housing correctly.
Tom,
ReplyDeleteHere is a photo link example to one of the customised foam dart designs that i'm currently using for some of my modded blasters.
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd81/maxelement/Misc/SabotFDL02.jpg
The numbers on the tips indicate the length of rubber rods at the tip which also corresponds to the relative weight of the tip. Different weight tips match different blasters.
I use foam dart bodies which i've tested to have good weight balance to provide consistant flight performance.
The green dart tips shown in the photo are made of dense but soft foam, this helps to absorb most of the impact of a dart hit, especially when they are fired from high powered blasters. It is specifically designed for player safety during Nerf games.
You can check out the NerfSG forum for more tests and discussions on customised foam darts amongst the local modders.
Back to our brass barrel discussion, for mine i managed to get the right amount of tape layers so that the barrel doesn't move anymore even after firing a few clips. It is very difficult to remove due to the tight fit, but if required, can be removed with some additional force.
I guess thats probably one way to do it, do test out other methods that could be better and more secure.
plz help me i am in the middle of this mod and am confused ummm you know that black thingy that makes it so that the dart is pushed back in the barrel all the way. well in step 10 i look there and its not there so i dont know if i need it or not.
ReplyDeletehenry,
ReplyDeleteIf you are referring to the black plastic plate that can be seen on the right side of the photos in Step 10, then thats the positioning plate which controls the clip lock.
Did you misplace it when taking apart the internals? Or perhaps the Longshot was already modded when you got it and the previous owner removed it?
It'll be better to have the black plate intact, but without it the blaster is still usable.
Nice! But I have to know, how prone to jamming is it? I know that the original angel breech decreases ROF, jams, and the brass pieces pop out of place. Does your breech have any of these problems?
ReplyDeleteTheSilverLining,
ReplyDeleteThe brass breeched Longshots i make all work smoothly and reliably, i put alot of time and effort into each set, making sure the parts are cut accurately and positioned properly.
They hardly jam unless i accidently use damaged or mis-shapen darts.
How well a brass breeched Longshot works depends very much on the maker's skill and how accurately the parts are cut and positioned.
The brass components should not even pop out of place at all, thats an obvious sign of bad workmanship.
A well made brass breech Longshot will chamber darts smoothly, maintain its RoF and provide consistant firing performance.
First, you did a very clean job and your guide is amazing! I've done this mod on my own Longshot and I would dare to say that it is of very similar quality. Yet there are a few problems that I have run into when it comes to the chambering process and I was wondering if you have considered them:
ReplyDelete1. The receiving end (the halfpipe) sometimes catches the dart consequently ramming the dart into the bolt (sometimes pushing the dart into the smaller brass tube).
2. When shooting the last dart in the magazine, the bottom of the bolt's brass sometimes catches on the magazine dart pusher (at the sloping part).
Both of these problems arise because the brass is too precise and unforgiving whereas Nerf is made of fat plastic and bendable foam darts.
Gus,
ReplyDeleteSo far, i've not experienced the issues you mentioned in my brass breeched Longshots.
Though i have tested and helped troubleshoot some versions from other modders which seemed to display similiar issues as what you described.
From our analysis, this issue seems to stem from the bolt assembly not being 100% in level position with the casing and brass barrel.
From your description of the issues encountered, maybe the orange plastic bolt attachment was not trimmed flat enough before being attached to the brass bolt, or the brass bolt assembly might somehow have been glued at an angle, causing it to be positioned slightly lower in the overall layout.
Hence during the chambering process, foam darts are pushed slightly lower towards the brass barrel and end up catching the bottom part.
At the same time, that might also explain the bottom of your brass bolt catching on the clip's dart feed pusher too. The brass bolt is supposed to slide smoothly over the feed pusher, not into it.
Perhaps you can check if the brass bolt and brass barrel are fully level with each other, especially when a clip is loaded. Try ways to adjust it. That should help solve the chambering issues.
Yeah, i definitely agree, this mod requires parts to be measured and positioned very accurately for smooth operation. :)
Will you be doing a mod guide for your Customised CS Darts?
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeletePerhaps soon, i'll post up a sample guide on some methods i use to make my customised foam darts. Stay tuned for it. :)
hey can this angle breach use streamline darts
ReplyDeleteJosh,
ReplyDeleteMy custom Brass Breech measurements have been adjusted to fit standard sized foam darts up to 7cm in length, so Nerf streamline darts could be used too.
But note that Nerf streamline darts do not work optimally with 9/16" brass barrels, as they tend to be too loose for that barrel dimension.
For best performance in 9/16" brass barrels, such brass breeches should be used with customised foam darts that have a perfect air-tight fit within the brass barrel.
I have some (400) stefans that are a springer fit in petg,will they fit in this breach with out destroying the darts? Because i don't want 400 unused stefans laying around
ReplyDeleteben,
ReplyDeleteWell, it all depends on your stefan fit in 9/16" brass barrels.
There are many different PETG tube brands with different ID measurements so even if your stefans can fit in one type, it may not fit in other brands or barrel material.
The only way to know for sure is to actually test fire your particular stefans in those brass barrels to test for suitability.
after we create the bolt receiver out of the 9/16 how we join it into the 19/32. This is where i get lost
ReplyDeletehow do i attatch the 9/16 bolt reciever in to the the brass bolt.
ReplyDeleteis it possible to still have the pop up blocker in place. If not how do you remove it.
ReplyDeleteEvy,
ReplyDeleteLook closely at the photo in Step 7, it shows how the 9/16" brass barrel is positioned to slide into the 19/32" brass bolt when the bolt is pushed forward.
The 9/16" barrels receiver half-pipe is positioned under the 19/32" bolt half-pipe and slotted into the bolt assembly sleeve.
The pop up blocker mechanism is no longer required, you just need to unscrew the parts and remove them.
When you say the measurements for each piece of brass in the bolt-end, you say, "19/32" brass tube : 17 cm (5.5 cm for bolt half-pipe)"....I know that the 19/32" acts as a "sleave" over the 9/16" barrel, but what do you mean by, "5.5 cm for the bolt half-pipe"? Do you mean that the bolt-boltsled attachment nub/piece is 5.5cm?
ReplyDeleteThanks!
Would it be possible to make a Brass Breech just for stefan darts by incorporating your "quarter-pipe" idea with Angel's original mod, by having the barrel be a quarter pipe, but the bolt piece be how it was in the original Angel Breech?
ReplyDeleteJesse,
ReplyDeleteThe 5.5cm half-pipe on the bolt is to allow more suface area to adhere the plastic bolt sled attachment piece securely.
Yes, its possible for the quarter-pipe design be incorporated into forsaken_angel24's original angel breech design.
But note that the objective of the quarter-pipe design is to allow the easy loading and unloading of the clip anytime, which the original angel breech still can't do because the bolt only opens partially to chamber shorter stefans, so the clip will still be blocked halfway by the bolt. Therefore, you will need to trim away the back portion of the clip feed lips to match the original angel breech design.
Another quick question-
ReplyDeleteCan I use your measurements but make a breech identical to Angel's original?(the "Stock" Angel Breech)....in all the writeups I've seen, they don't tell you how much to cut down the black bolt piece, but you do. However, I was wondering if your measurements are all custom made for the HALF PIPE design...
I'm in the middle of making my breech, and I just don't know how long to cut the black piece...
Jesse,
ReplyDeleteWell, my brass breech parts measurements are designed for a full breech opening to chamber foam darts up to 7cm in length.
If you still want to make the original angel breech with its smaller breech opening, then simply cut the black bolt piece at the same place and just increase the length of the brass bolt section to make a smaller breech opening.
Though i'm kinda puzzled why with a full breech opening design already available, you would still want to make a smaller breech opening which limits the length of foam darts that you can use. :)
I'm only making the "stock" angel breech because my stefans fit with an already tight fit (no tightening rings needed) in 9/16" brass, but streamlines would require t-rings. Because of this, I am forced to make a seperate blaster/breech for stefans and for streamlines...D:
ReplyDeleteJesse,
ReplyDeleteHmmm... i'm still wondering why you would need to make 2 different brass breeches just to fit different length foam darts?
Just make the full breech opening design, 'cos it can chamber both standard length foam darts and short length stefans.
If you want to have the option of using both stefans and streamlines in the same blaster, then just make 2 brass barrels (one with tightening rings and one without), then just swap the brass barrels whenever you need to.
You don't need to go through all the unnecessary effort just to make 2 separate brass breeches to achieve the same objective.
I think its best if you review how a brass breech system works again, 'cos it seems you might be abit confused with it at the moment. :)
Right now, I understand how everything works in the breech, but I'm just having a bit of trouble with the fine-tuning.
ReplyDeleteYou suggested that I just make 2 seperate barrels. I think this is a good idea. However, would the stefan-accepting barrel still work with the 19/32" being a half pipe?
Also, in your diagram for the bolt end, you display that the 19/32" piece slides all the way so it's flush with the end of the black piece....in all the other writeups, people say that the 19/32" is just secured by the 9/16" nub, and rests nicely on top of the black peice...did you have to sand out the inside of teh black piece?
Nevermind, sorry. I answered my own question about the "stefan barrel and half pipe bolt" thing.
ReplyDeleteJesse,
ReplyDeleteFor the 19/32" bolt section, i make sure it is nested inside the black plastic piece so that the join is more secure.
The black plastic piece can vary slightly in internal diameter between batches of Longshots, so if the 19/32" brass bolt can't slot in properly, just sand or trim the inside of the black piece until everything nests properly.
My 9/16" barrel keeps hitting the 1/2" nested pipe. I tried folding the edge of the 1/2" inward but didn't really help. If I make another one, I think I would use 15/32" brass for the dart stopper and put nest a small 1/2" piece.
ReplyDeleteOk, So I began cutting and now I realize that I only have 1ft of 9/16 pipe. Do I have to buy another piece or can I just cut a piece off the end?
ReplyDeleteOk, I'm finished with mine but the bolt sled doesn't line up when I place the top part of the shell. Have you had this problem and any fixes you would recommend?
ReplyDeleteNate,
ReplyDeleteLooks like your brass barrel and bolt alignment is abit off or the position of the 1/2" dart pusher brass tube was permanently glued at a slight angle.
Next time, try to make sure all the parts are aligned perfectly during the glue curing process.
dctalk007,
ReplyDeleteCheck to make sure the orange plunger is aligned properly in the casing, there is a stem on the right side of the plunger that slots into a part in the right side casing, if it is not slotted in properly, the whole assembly would most likely be mis-aligned.
Try moving the entire assembly to and fro to get all the parts to sit nicely, adjust some of the components to get them into proper position.
Great guide SG Nerf!
ReplyDeleteI have a problem with my bolt and barrel not being aligned after 2 shots. I test fitted everything before glueing everything together and after gluing it together and it all worked smoothly. Then once I go to put the gun together it seems like the bolt is a little higher than the barrel, but when I take the longshots body off and slide the bolt back and forth its fine.
Any hint or ideas to what might be the problem?
DOPEBOYisa,
ReplyDeleteI guess one side of the casing on your Longshot might just be slightly skewed, the plastic casing of your Longshot probably has different alignment when the components sit on only one side of the casing versus when both parts of the casing are fitted together.
A solution you could try is to re-adjust the position of the brass barrel abit higher (with more layers of tape or material under the brass barrel) so that it can become aligned with the brass bolt.
hey, I'd really love to get into the modding business of my new Longshot. The brass breech sounds great (If I can get a Dremmel) but can you give us any idea of the decrease in lifespan of the stock vs the modded? I was hoping that there wouldn't be much of a change in degradation rate, but I think that's just optimism.
ReplyDeleteWorked like a charm! Thanks SG Nerf for the help.
ReplyDeletexarteros,
ReplyDeleteModded blasters will definitely wear out much faster as they are not designed to take on so much material stress in the first place.
It all depends on the modding workmanship too, if it is done properly and used with care (along with regular maintainence), the lifespan of modded blasters can be extended.
So far my modded blasters have lasted over dozens of weekly Nerf games and they still work fine.
But all things will eventually break and need to be repaired, so you have to accept it and mod at your own risk! :)
what is the range of the longshot with brass breech but STOCK spring?
ReplyDeletedustin,
ReplyDeleteWith the efficient air seal of a brass breech match with just a stock spring, i've tested the firing range to average around 60ft, imho quite decent considering how light load the original stock spring is. :)
Hi Sg Nerf, in most of your breeched longshots how far into the 19/32 pipe does your 9/16 go when the bolt is closed? mine goes about a quarter of an inch, and it's losing air there so i was wondering if it should be going further into the 19/32.
ReplyDeleteaj,
ReplyDeleteIn my brass breeched Longshots, the 19/32" brass bolt overlaps the 9/16" brass barrel by around 2-3mm, that's already more than sufficient to form an air-tight connection.
If your brass bolt and barrel connections seem to be leaking air even with an ample overlap, then perhaps the width of either brass tube might have been somehow warped out of shape, so they don't fit perfectly anymore. I guess you'll have to check the fit of those parts.
Will this fire Sonic Darts? Or would I have to mod it in a similar fashion to the Sonic Dart Recon to do so?
ReplyDeleteItsACaptainDan,
ReplyDeleteAs with all N-Strike clip system blasters, the Longshot will need to be modded to use Sonic or Tagger foam darts (like in my Recon Tagger Dart Compatibility Mod).
Note that you cannot use Sonic or Tagger foam darts in a brass breeched Longshot.
hey sgnerf, just posting to say thank you, my new breeched longshot is working great, and also technically if you just put the sonic dart in the front of the brass barrel (especially if its a 17/32 barrel, like mine) it would probably fire, just not that far or accurate.
ReplyDeleteSG Nerf,
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking of doing a brass breech longshot myself, but I'm just wondering how you managed to get the bolt end piece out of the plunger tube, and how you put it back in. Did you need to use any epoxy to secure it?
malee_necromancer,
ReplyDeleteI simply use a pipe cutter to cut the plastic bolt into 2 sections (at the black colored bolt area) then the plastic bolt end piece can just be taken out separately via the back of the plunger tube. Same method to slot it back in.
Yes, you need to use the strongest 2-part epoxy glue you can find to permanently attach the assembled brass bolt to the plastic bolt end piece.
SG Nerf,
ReplyDeleteHow would you go about permanently affixing the barrel in place in the Longshot, after it's in position?
Tom,
ReplyDeleteYou could just use strong 2-part epoxy glue to permanently attach the brass barrel within the plastic barrel, but that would tend to make future adjustments and modification improvements more difficult.
In my units, i simply use layers of electrical tape to wrap around the brass barrel until it can sit securely within the plastic barrel, yet it can still be detached if required.
Hi
ReplyDeleteI have just brass breeched, 2 o-ring gresed and 14 kg aftermarket spring padded (quite thickly) my longshot and its only shooting 1-2 meters whats happening?
Thanks
holyhangrenade,
ReplyDeleteWell, it looks like that your brass breech is not totally air-tight and the air flow is leaking inefficiently. Check it and do the necessary adjustments to make sure the entire system is fully air sealed.
Also check that the o-rings and lube you installed are not restricting the plunger movement, and the foam darts you use have an ideal fit in the brass barrel.
Can u please please please post a tutorial on how to single a Longshot???
ReplyDeleteP.S Did ur skin get darker??? I noticed it when u were doing that clean-up box thing. xD Not to be racist though...
Oh yeah i Fogot. please be usuing 1/2" pvc. its the only thing i have handy.
ReplyDeletebarrettm107cqbr,
ReplyDeleteSingle a Longshot? Why would i want to remove the clip-fed feature of the Longshot and slow its rate-of-fire, when a brass breech system achieves the same objective and yet still retains the use of the clips.
I only do useful and effective mods, not useless mods.
barrettm107cqbr,
ReplyDeleteAnd nope, i didn't get darker... it's just the peculiar way my camera sometimes captures colours in certain lighting and objects.
ok lol. is there any way to make a pvc breech? just like urs except using 1/2 pvc??? thanks.
ReplyDeletebarrettm107cqbr,
ReplyDeleteSo far i've not been able to make a proper clip-fed air-tight breech system for the Longshot with just PVC pipes.
oh. ok i got the idea from uin13's cpvc longshot. ok one last question...can u post a intergration guide? like intergrting a lsfg or a maverick??? thanks for ur comments
ReplyDeletewhere do you get your brass i have searched everywhere but i cant find any of the sizes you use where do you get it?!?!?!?!?!
ReplyDeletebarrettm107cqbr,
ReplyDeleteWell, i'm not so much into integrations 'cos personally so far i've not found any real effectiveness in Nerf games with higher powered blasters that are integrated with lower powered ones (like LSFG or Mavericks).
I've used such integrated blasters before but find that its basically like adding deadweight 'cos the lowered powered blasters tend to be hardly used since the higher powered blasters can already do a more effective job at both long and close range.
I do admit that such integrations can look cool though, and i guess thats why modders like to do them.
For me, i prefer to spend my time modding my blasters to achieve real usable improvements for actual Nerf games. :)
Anyways, you can find plenty of other modders online who love to do blaster integrations, just do some quick searches and you'll find them.
Foxyfox,
ReplyDeleteCheck at the NerfSG forum "Modification Materials Directory" thread, all the info on the various local stores that stock suitable modding materials are listed there.
Hey sg, this is more a question about the longshot in general than the brass breech, but i've noticed in all the longshots i have modded (3) the plunger tube is wider at the top than the bottom, so the plunger only seals well with the tube the last inch or inch and a half, and if i put e-tape under the o-rings, then by the time it gets to the end of the plunger tube there's too much friction. Do you think this is a manufacturing thing, or are your longshots the same way, and if they are how do you solve this problem? all my longshots are the old blue ones, so maybe it's just the older ones or something.
ReplyDeleteaj,
ReplyDeleteI guess a tapering effect in plunger tubes might be to allow less resistance for the initial plunger movement to get up to speed quickly, then the main air compression happens at the lower half of the plunger tube.
Adding e-tape under o-rings generally tends to cause excessive resistance and friction issues in most plungers, so they have to be applied sparingly.
One way to enhance the seal but yet not increase the resistance is to source for slightly larger but softer aftermarket o-rings, so that they fill the seal when at the top of the plunger, yet will still compress easily to maintain a seal at the bottom of the plunger.
hey, silly question
ReplyDeleteAbout to do this mod, but haven't used a dremel before on fine tubbing like this. Typically heavier metals like pc cases etc.
What do you guys recommend? high speed?? low speed setting and any specific discs so i dont mangle the tube since its sooo thin!
Cheers
Trent
Trenthan,
ReplyDeleteWhen using a Dremel to cut thin-wall brass tubes, high speed + thin cutting disc/wheel (and steady hands) will help in making finer cuts. :)
Hey SG Nerf I couldn't find the "Modification Materials Directory" so it would help if you could just tell me where you got it or just past a link to your reply Thanks!!!
ReplyDeleteFoxyfox,
ReplyDeleteThe "Modification Materials Directory" thread at the NerfSG forum:
http://nerfsg.freeforums.org/modification-materials-directory-updated-24-6-10-t930.html
My 19/32" doesn't seem to fit inside my plastic bolt end piece. I'll try to sand the bolt down, just wondering if you have any suggestions or if I'm just doing it wrong.
ReplyDeletenaturalman_7,
ReplyDeleteMost likely you still have another ring of plastic from the front bolt that is still stuck in the cut-out portion, try to remove it or sand it away to accommodate the 19/32" brass tube.
Can you please post a test fire video, I would like to see the results before I mod my favorite LongShot CS-6.
ReplyDeleteShnowman,
ReplyDeleteWell, i've no plans to do a test fire video at the moment, maybe if i get around to it in the future.
In the meantime, just do the mod if you have the time and materials, 'cos the Longshot brass breech mod has been done by so many modders over the past few years that the performance improvements are already well known amongst Nerf players.
Hi so i have a small problem with the darts feeding into the brass from a clip. So I cock like normal and for some reason the tail of the dart doesn't feed into the barrel correctly. Like it gets caught in between the front of the breech and the back part of the breech. I was thinking it was the 1/2" pipe that was doing it but i want a second opinion before actually fixing this.
ReplyDeleteChris,
ReplyDeleteIf you are encountering such foam dart chambering issues, then most likely it's due to the brass breech in your blaster being mis-aligned with the clip feed.
Check that the brass breech is level with the clip and positioned properly (not higher or lower), if necessary re-do the brass breech to achieve the proper alignment.
Hey guys/Girls
ReplyDeleteJust about completed this mod but kinda stuck. How do i secure the barrel in positions. It isn't addressed really in the guide....
Looks like the brass barrel has been placed in the original barrel. But how is it centered in the barrel (for alignment etc), and fixed so it doesn't move forward or back.....
I read above electrical tap is used.....
Thanks in advance,
Cheers Trent
Trenthan,
ReplyDeleteAs mentioned in my mod guide, i simply use layers of electrical or duct tape wrapped in rings around the barrel to wedge it inside the original plastic barrel.
It takes some adjustments and test fittings to get the right amount of tape layers for the barrel to fit centered and tightly, but once its done right the barrel will hold in position securely.
I don't permanently glue the barrel barrel in as i prefer to be able to adjust it anytime and have the option to swap it with different barrel lengths.
Cool mod but how can the barrel be 9/16 brass? That's not snug tot the dart, and nothing would push in the breech right? Shouldn't the barrel be 17/32 brass?
ReplyDeleteDavid
NerfHyvesNederland,
ReplyDeleteYes, its possible to use 17/32" brass barrels too (then step down the rest of the breech sizes), 17/32" brass tube can fit some narrower OD foam darts, but you'll have a problem if you need to fire the wider OD foam that are commonly used in custom foam darts. In addition, if the foam dart fit is too snug or too tight, it can cause issues with the firing as the foam dart might experience too much resistance or get stuck.
9/16" brass tube is ideal because you have the option to use different sized of foam darts for more flexibility. If you tend to also use narrower OD foam darts, as mentioned in the mod guide, just add some tightening rings to grip those foam darts initially before firing.
For my own brass breeched Longshots, the customized foam darts i use all fit perfectly in 9/16" brass barrels (not too tight nor too loose), so i don't even add tightening rings as i already get the best power and range performance out of that dart fit setup.
ok, but if I only use streamlines, no other stefans etc. Should i then use 17/32?
ReplyDeleteAnd if I put my gun upside down, won't the dart fall out??
David
David,
ReplyDeleteWell, it depends on the dart fit... honestly, i actually have no idea how modders can use streamlines properly in 17/32" brass barrels for the Longshot, 'cos from the streamlines that i've tested, i have to literally twist them into 17/32" brass tubes and the fit is so tight that i tend to encounter lots of jamming issues during the chambering process with that barrel dimension.
On the otherhand, there are modders in the States who seem to be able to use 17/32" brass barrels for their breeches without issue.
Maybe it's due to the temperature and humidity in Singapore (where i live), perhaps that makes foam darts abit fatter than compared to countries with cooler and less humid weather? I've still not figured it out yet. :)
Anyways, the tightening rings made in the 9/16" brass barrels are designed to hold the narrower OD foam darts so they will not drop out when the blaster is tipped downwards.
can you make a tutorial about how to make a brass breech for the raider?
ReplyDeleteSpike,
ReplyDeleteYou can refer to my Nerf Recon Brass Breech Mod Guide at the NerfSG forum:
http://nerfsg.freeforums.org/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide-t1642.html
The same mod process can also be applied to a Nerf Raider, it may just need some slight tweaks in the measurements to fit it.
Note that due to the much smaller air volume of such reverse plunger blasters, the performance improvements even with a brass breech installed wouldn't be as significant (only 5-10ft difference).
Thats why most modders don't really bother to go through all the effort to brass breech their Recons or Raiders, just to get minor improvements.
Hi there,
ReplyDeleteI finished the breech today and I was wondering if it is correct that the outer brass tube slides just a few millimeters (2-3mm) over the barrel tube.
The pusher assembly is like 17cm long as you mentioned. Locating the barrel more to the magazine opening increases the overlap of the tubes, but on the other hand it reduces the tolerance for the darts to chamber properly.
And thats what bothers me most there is nearly no tolerance for darts that dont lie in the middle of the magazine. If its to far to the front it get stuck to the barrel and to far on the back it stucks on the pusher.
Is there anything to reduce this? Is this normal for brass breeches?
And the other odd thing I noticed was that some times (it occurs really often) the darts slip into the pusher part and wont chamber properly. That happens even with newer darts.
I hope you can help me with that issues.
Also many thanks for the write up.
Keep em coming.
Cheers
Marv,
ReplyDeleteYes, the 19/32" brass bolt section should at least have a 1-2mm overlap over the 9/16" brass barrel when the breech is closed.
The tight tolerance in this breech design is due to the plunger draw and foam dart lengths being very close, so there is a very small margin of error.
Note that the original "angel breech" design by forsaken_angel24 was only made to chamber short 1.5" (approx. 3.5cm) length stefan foam darts.
Getting a Longshot brass breech design to chamber normal 7cm length foam darts requires alot more precision in parts and clip positioning.
You have to make sure that the foam darts are loaded properly into the middle of the clip, they should not be staggered forward and back. Some modders trim their foam darts abit shorter (ie 6.5cm length, some even just 6cm) to enable a larger margin of error during chambering.
Make sure the bolt assembly is not positioned too far forward that it tends to restrict the upward advancement of the foam darts, re-position it until it allows unrestricted ammo feeding (look at the photo of my brass breech example in open position for reference).
If the parts are positioned properly, there should be a breech opening that can open up to 7.8-7.9cm in length (with a 1-2mm overlap when closed).
As for your issue of the foam darts slipping into the pusher part and getting stuck, that should not happen as the dart pusher brass tube ID is too small for foam darts to enter (unless your foam darts are unusually narrow). Perhaps you can re-check it to troubleshoot further.
Hope that helps!
Hi,
ReplyDeletethanks for your fast answer.
It seems that my padding is the reason for the little tolerance at the pusher. I will remove some of the padding after work today and look if this helps.
For me the darts are just fine and as told it even happens to new ones. Maybe I will glue some sort of string over the pusher tube to prevent the issue.
But I have another question regarding the black plastic part of the pusher assembly. Why do you cut it down to 1cm lenght? I left mine as long as it was and it seems to be fine, also you have more surface for the epoxy glue.
Thanks again for your help.
Marv,
ReplyDeleteYup, the black plastic part can be left longer as you have done, i cut mine shorter because the particular batch of Longhots i was working on had narrower IDs in those black sections, therefore the 19/32" brass tubes could not fit properly (sometimes there are variations in dimensions depending on production batch), so instead of sanding their IDs larger, i just cut them shorter for easier fit. :)
Michael,
ReplyDeleteWell, any tube material can be used to make breech designs too, but they have to be able to create a 100% air-tight seal between the 2 parts (bolt and barrel) to be effective.
K&S brand brass tubes can nest perfectly within each other with a naturally air-tight fit (and are commonly found at most hobby craft stores), that's why it's a popular choice for brass breeches.
"Position the brass bolt, attachment piece and bolt sled in the casing and note the maximum forward and backward movement of the bolt to find the correct point to attach the plastic attachment tip to the brass bolt."
ReplyDeleteCould you explain that a bit more? It's what I'm about to start doing, and I don't want to mess up my brass so I should know it thoroughly. When you say to note the max movement, how would that change where you glue the bolt? Don't you just match the tips of the brass and plastic piece?
Also, does it have to be perfectly centered?
Matthew,
ReplyDeleteJust use some tape to temporarily attach the plastic attachment piece to the brass bolt assembly, then slot it into the boltsled and adjust it's position.
Make sure that when the breech is open it's wide enough to fit a foam dart, and when the breech is closed, the brass bolt overlaps the brass barrel by at least 1-2mm for an air-tight seal.
Once you get the right positions, then proceed to permanently glue the plastic attachment piece on.
Yes, everything must be centered and level for the breech to work properly, just take your time and do the mod step-by-step.
Does welding it together work?
ReplyDeleteI think I did something wrong, because when I tried to fit the bolt end-piece onto my brass bolt, it absolutely would not fit. I couldn't hammer it in, I tried to thin it down a bit with a dremel but I need to be careful now because it's showing those plastic strech lines.
ReplyDeleteAny advice? I know I didn't do anything wrong, it just won't fit.
tjchien,
ReplyDeleteI guess the brass bolt parts could be welded together (instead of using epoxy glue), you could try it out and see if it works. :)
Matthew,
ReplyDeleteSometimes there are variations in parts fit and dimensions in Nerf blasters (depending on production batch). It seems your unit has a much narrower bolt end-piece than usual.
In your case, you'll need to carefully sand down the interior diameter of the plastic bolt end-piece evenly until the brass bolt assembly can fit in.
If the plastic becomes too thin or weak, reinforce it with a layer of epoxy glue to add additional strength to that section.
Hey SG- great writeup. I have a question, how did you secure the brass barrel into the stock barrel- did you leave the electrical tape on it as you did in the writeup? I would hate to have it fall out in a war like my friend's, he was PIISSSSSSSSSSSED.
ReplyDeleteThanks in advance,
Matt
Matt,
ReplyDeleteSome modders permanently glue the brass barrel in position, but personally i prefer to keep the parts modular so i just wrap enough e-tape at various sections of the brass barrel to ensure that it fits very tightly within the original plastic barrel area. so far, none of my units have experienced their brass barrels shifting or sliding out.
Nice tut. but im having a huge problem with the barrels,bolt sled,and the handle to prime it.First the 19/32 brass half pipe dosent go over the 19/16 it just gets stuck. then when i prime it or cock it it wont cock!Should there be brass sticking out the gun?, because in my gun there is.Also when i was finished with the pieces i placed everything in and the plunger wouldnt fit in so i just squeezed it in there but the black tube thing that comes out(sorry dont know what it is) but it would stick out halfway i was wondering if this had to do with the barrels but if you dont quite understand me ill post a link to the pictures because this is wierd and confusing.
ReplyDeleteLeoTheModdER,
ReplyDeleteEvery part and internal component of the blaster has to fit nicely and securely, if you have to force components in then it means your parts are out of alignment, that's why you are experiencing issues with even the basic operation of it.
This mod cannot be done in a slipshod manner 'cos everything is linked, so if just one part is not made or aligned properly, it will not work.
Check and re-check everything and make sure everything fits perfectly, spend time adjusting it. This is an advanced mod and requires a fair bit of patience and precise organized workmanship to accomplish.
I have preformed many mods involving 17/32 brass barrels in nitefinders, and in those mods, a dart with a tight fit in the barrel gets higher ranges and better accuracy than a dart with a loose fit. The diameter of a stock dart is around 17/32". Forgive me for my ignorance, but how does having a 17/32" dart travel down an 18/32" (or 9/16") barrel create greater ranges than having a tight fit between dart and barrel? I know that this is a tried and true mod, and therefore I am not questioning its legitimacy. I am merely asking you to explain to me why not having a tight seal between the dart and barrel is the best option for the longshot. Perhaps a tight seal would create too much friction for the dart to gain velocity.
ReplyDeleterkuesel,
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing you live in a place that has a cooler climate and lower humidity? If that's the case, then your foam darts should be narrow enough to still have a suitable fit in 17/32" brass barrels. So you could "step down" the tube measurements and use 17/32" brass barrels too.
You'll have to test it though, firing a foam dart down a short 17/32" brass barrel may have a different result from down a longer barrel. It all depends on the kind of foam darts or stefans you are using.
I guess one of the reasons why most modders use 9/16" brass barrels in their Longshot brass breeches is also because it allows for more flexibility in foam darts usage, many modders custom make their own foam darts using foam backer rod (FBR) which have wider outer diameters (OD), so wider OD barrels are required.
Just to note, i live in Singapore which has warmer and more humid weather all year round. Over here, even narrow foam darts like Nerf streamlines have such an over-tight fit in 17/32" brass barrels that they actually tend to get stuck, so 9/16" brass barrels are a better choice for my blaster mods. :)
You are very right about the climate difference. I live in arguably the most temperate region in all of the US, so it is definitely cool and dry. I realize now that 17/32 works well in muzzle loading springers, but is too tight to work as a breech. I have started work on your custom brass breech, and the LS is already hitting around 130 ft (with a wildly out of control stock dart).
ReplyDeleterkuesel,
ReplyDeleteNice... just have to find the best barrel and foam dart combinations.
Yeah, stock streamline foam darts can sometimes achieve much further ranges than custom balanced foam darts but they tend to have rather erratic flight characteristics, swerving and spiraling all over the place. :)
The pros of spending less money and not worrying about the plastic bolt nub coming off are tempting me to just take a stock bolt assembly, and sand the inside enough to stick a 3 inch piece of 17/32" brass inside of it.
ReplyDeleteAre there any cons you've experienced/can see coming from this?
AceDudeyeah,
ReplyDeleteThat's a possible alternative method too, you could give it a try.
Just have to construct it in such a way that the breech and foam darts are still aligned with the brass barrel so that they can chamber properly and still form a secure air-tight seal.
I've stumbled upon a liquidation sale of brass barrels! So I'm trying this.
ReplyDeleteIf I only bought a 1 foot section of 9/16's brass, there should still be enough to use for both the brass barrel and the small 2 cm section at the back of the breech, right?
And how many tightening rings did you add? How long a section of the 9/16's barrel has tightening rings on it for the best stock streamline fit?
Thanks!
AceDudeyeah,
ReplyDeleteYes, you could cut 2cm off the 1 ft barrel to use in the bolt section, but note that your barrel will end up abit shorter (which might reduce the range improvements slightly).
For my units, i add around 3-4 tightening rings at the entrance of the brass barrel. Be careful not to space the tightening rings too far past where the foam dart will be chambered in, or else they will become a hindrance.
Brilliant guide SG, I've recently done this mod (along with all the basic mods) and the results are incredible. Up to 150 feet with new streamlines!
ReplyDeleteJust want to say to anybody attempting this, don't forget to put the brass bolt assembly inside the plunger tube BEFORE you epoxy the boltsled piece on! I wasn't so attentive, however it was nothing a dremel and hot glue wouldn't fix :P
Wow, in the picture you have, the 3-4 tightening rings only cover 1-2 cm of brass barrel!
ReplyDeleteThat's how much a distance the rings cover in the finished product?
I was thinking like half-100% of the dart's length. Because 1-2 cm of tight barrel width is the same as stock barrels.
AceDudeyeah,
ReplyDeleteYup, thats all the tightening rings i add... in fact, for my other brass breeches i don't even add any tightening rings at all, its an optional step 'cos it also depends on the dart fit.
The tightening rings are just to hold the foam dart in position at the beginning. Your foam darts should already have a good seal in the barrel in the first place.
If your foam darts actually drop out when the barrel is pointed downwards without the tightening rings, then you should consider changing the foam darts or the barrel size instead. :)
Hmm, I guess I will wait for the 9/16's barrel to arrive to see how stock streamlines fit in them!!
ReplyDeleteSgnerf, if u tighten abit the longshot's trigger screw will it be better to press and shoot?
ReplyDeleteSG nerf,its quite difficult to placed the scope onto the longshot and it scrathes the tactical rails
ReplyDeleteJordan,
ReplyDeleteYou could try, though it can't be too tight or the trigger might get stuck. :)
I haven't had any issues with mounting the included Longshot scope onto the Longshot's tactical rail, so far they have all been a nice fit on my units. Though i guess the fit could vary between different production batches. Yours might happen to have too tight a fit.
Unless you are referring to those actual scopes, then they are a different fit for Nerf tactical rails.
hey sg does this barrel get better ranges with a stock stremlines than forsakenangels angel breech
ReplyDeletecrakdice,
ReplyDeleteWell, my brass breech design is based on forsaken_angel24's original design, and the concept is basically the same. I just added features to improve it's durability and make it able to also use normal length foam darts too.
With equivalent spring loads, both brass breech designs would have similar performance.
Btw, i have just updated the range data to reflect the performance when different foam dart configurations are used. The calibration of foam darts affect ranges significantly.
Could you please change the measurements for a long strike?
ReplyDeleteNerf Modder,
DeleteYou can refer to the measurements in my Recon "Brass Breech" Mod Guide, the measurements are similar for the Longstrike:
http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide.html
Note that you may have to further adjust the measurements slightly to suit the Longstrike internals, but it is closer to the Recon measurements as both share the same reverse plunger system.
Hey Sg Nerf, I got a question, I was trying to do this mod on a blue longshot when I noticed that the bolt end piece didnt fit the 19/32 tube, so I tried my yellow longshot and it slides just right, I'm guessing there is a difference between the two, and what should I do if I wanted to breech a blue longshot
ReplyDeleteZergKiller5,
DeleteThe internal diameter of the bolt end piece for the Blue or Yellow Longshots can sometimes vary slightly... it depends on production batch and also how the AR was removed (there might be an extra layer of plastic still left in the bolt end piece).
If the 19/32" brass tube can't fit, then just use a Dremel with a sanding bit to sand the internal diameter wider until it fits.
i just finished this mod and am very happy with the results thank you so much for posting this guide :)
ReplyDeleteHow so you attach the new brass barrel inside the stock barrel permanently? Or do you just keep it semi-fixed for adjustments?
ReplyDeletenewjax311,
DeleteI usually just wedge in the brass barrel with electrical tape initially when testing the operation of the brass breech. It can be kept removable in that setup, but i usually permanently glue in the brass barrel once i've successfully test it out in a few games and am satisfied with the alignment.
Hi, I was watching some kids on youtube making an angel breach and instead of attaching the brass bolt to the bolt sled, and cuting out the attachment piece from the original plastic bolt, they just drilled it out and slipped it over, is there anything wrong by doing it that way?
ReplyDeletehybridmind,
DeleteThere are many other alternative methods, it just depends on your requirements.
Some modders simply shape and slot a 9/16" or 17/32" brass tube inside the existing plastic bolt, but there is no brass barrel setup, that's commonly called a "half-brass" mod. There is no air-tight bolt to barrel seal so its not a true brass breech, all that does is make the existing stock bolt abit narrower to create a tighter foam dart seal.
There is also another method where some modders use a 17/32" brass barrel instead of a 9/16" brass barrel (usually because the foam darts or stefans they use are narrower in OD), so they step down the sizes of the brass bolt parts which allow them to nest the narrower tubes inside the existing plastic bolt.
Note that if you use a 17/32" brass barrel setup, you'll have to be sure that you only use narrower foam darts or stefans, as it will not be able to fit wider foam darts or stefans (as compared to 9/16" brass barrels with tightening rings, which can accept a wider variety of foam darts and stefans).
Hi,
ReplyDeleteDo you sell the mod set?
*hejiang*,
DeleteSorry, i don't sell kits for this mod.
is it possible to cut the stock bolt all the way and not have 1cm of it there?will it mess up the whole breech assembly?
ReplyDeletesomebody,
DeleteWell, you could remove the remaining 1cm of the original plastic bolt, but that would reduce the overall support for the brass bolt parts, which may result in a weaker bolt assembly structure. So it's still better to retain that bit from the original plastic bolt for added support.
then is it possible not to have the half pipe part,instead,epoxy the original bolt piece onto the brass?
ReplyDeleteSomebody,
DeleteYes, you could skip the half pipe design at the brass bolt section and just glue the plastic bolt attachment piece directly onto it, but the resulting adhesive contact area would be smaller so the bond between both parts will not be as strong, hence a higher tendency to break under load stress.
The half pipe is designed to allow a larger adhesive contact area for the plastic bolt sled attachment piece to bond with, creating a much stronger attachment point... very essential for Longshots using stronger load springs. :)
Does this work for the Longstrike as well?
ReplyDeleteJake Bake,
DeleteYou can refer to my Recon "Brass Breech" Mod Guide:
http://modworks.blogspot.com/2010/05/nerf-recon-brass-breech-mod-guide.html
Recons and Longshots share the similar type of reverse plunger system, so you can use it as a reference. :)
SG Nerf
ReplyDeleteSince the bolt is made of brass could you also solder the brass together instead of gluing it?
Romperhouse10,
DeleteI guess its possible, maybe you can just try it out and see if it works well too. :)
I definitely see that you thinned the top of the back portion of the plastic attachment piece so it can fit into the plunger tube.
ReplyDeleteDid you also trim/sand the bottom of the plastic portion to make the width thinner to compensate for any raising the new brass bolt does to the attachment piece's original height compared to when it was all stock?
AceDudeyeah,
DeleteYes, i trim both the top and bottom portions of the plastic attachment piece thinner and kept testing the fit until the brass bolt is 100% level and aligned with the barrel, only then do i permanently epoxy glue them together. :)
Thought so!
DeleteI kept looking at the plastic attachment step and didn't see any mention of trimming the bottom part, but noticed my barrel wasn't level. Was unsure of what to do. Thanks!
Also, when you open the breech, does the half-pipe portion of the 9/16" barrel go past the 1/2" brass dart pusher?
If after leveling the barrel and testing the breech movement, if misalignment still occurs, I am contemplating extending the half-pipe portion of my barrel by 1.5 centimeters so it never leaves the 1/2" dart pusher in the bolt. Do you see any drawbacks to this?
Hey, SG Nerf!
DeleteI think I've stumbled upon an improvement to this!
While looking at the site of attachment for the plastic nub in this guide and both the guide over here(another guide for a longshot breech for streamline darts),
http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20837
I noticed that both of them have the nub a few millimeters (at most) from the end of the 19/32" half pipe.
While test fitting, I noticed this results in a draw the has the bolt-sled 1/2" to 1/4" of a cm away from its maximum forward position.
I thought "there must be a reason the nub is placed there", and so I saw that the priming bar's slot in the shell only allows it to reach the mentioned position a fraction of a cm short of the max forward position.
So I thought, "What if you were to cut and extend the priming bar slot, allowing the priming bar to move farther forward, adjust the brass bolt measurements accordingly, ultimately increasing the total draw?"
An increased draw, even by a portion of a centimeter, would do great at improving the strict tolerance of this mod!
The loading would be as finicky with darts loaded towards the front or the back of the clip, and there's more room for getting that airtight overlap between the 9/16" barrel and the 19/32" bolt.
What do you think?
AceDudeyeah,
DeleteWell, you can try and see if it helps abit... but the thing is the priming system of the Longshot has a max forward position, because once the back of the bolt touches the end of the plunger tube, it cannot be pushed forward anymore. There is a limit to the total breech gap and draw.
hey im about to try this mod would you beable to replace the brass with other metal or is it ment for brass
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteThis mod requires the use of tubes that can connect with each other to form 100% air tight seals.
I've tested many different types and brands of metal tubes and so far, only K&S brand brass tubes are able to nest perfectly within each other for 100% seal, and fit into the Longshot breech system too.
I guess if you can find another brand or type of metal tubes which have the same perfect nesting characteristics, you could use them too.
Hey sgnerf,
ReplyDeleteIm a kid and i want to use your pictures for a presentation. I will leave the picture with the link.
Anonymous,
DeleteOkay, just add credits and links back to this site if you use the photos.
also can be used copper tubes
ReplyDeletehey
ReplyDeletecan i do the same thing on my Longstrike?
Thanks